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Discussion Starter #1
If I'm posting this in the wrong area, my apologies. I have an issue with my car that is really driving me crazy. My ETC light (Red lightning bolt) and ESP/BAS light are coming on constantly. Codes have been 2101, 2118, 2110. I have taken it to two dealerships with no success. I am out of warranty (2005 300c) so everything is on my dime. The second dealership I took it to put some serious time into trying to isolate the issue. (Throttle body checks, computer reset, check for new flashes, etc.) When I left that dealership, it ran ok for about a day and a half then started up again. Sometimes I can shut it off and restart and it will run fine for a short while or, sometimes, go a few feet and freak out again.

Things I have tried:
Replaced old TB sensor plug (TB plug repair kit)
Installed new Throttle Body
Installed new MAP sensor.
Had load test performed on battery - checked out ok.
Dealership reset computer - Tech downloaded original factory specs to the PCM.

It has reached a point where I can't drive the car (borrowing a car now to get back and forth).

The only two things left I can think of is the accelerator pedal and the computer. Neither is cheap but the pedal would be the cheapest of the two. The dealership couldn't say for sure that the computer was the problem so I'm hesitant to shell out $500+ for a new PCM. Everything I have read so far makes me think it could be a wire somewhere so I don't want to buy a new PCM until I can find a way to rule that out.

Any help or suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated. I love my 300c and want to get back behind her wheel. :(
 

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I was going to say acellerator pedal position sensor next... It sounds like you are looking at all the right things... I do not think it CAN be the computer actually. From what I understand the TB control loop is independant of the computer. And that the computer only monitors the components and will throw a code if something does not look right. Besides, even if the computer is in the loop, typically the PCM works, or it doesn't. It's not like a position sensor on the pedal, which could act up at any time...


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Discussion Starter #4
I ordered the Accelerator Pedal today ($122.00) and it is supposed to arrive tomorrow. If I have the time, I will try to get it installed tomorrow night. Otherwise, I will probably hold off until the weekend so I'm not rushed when I start the job.

I hope this solves the issue.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Pedal came in today instead of yesterday but doesn't matter as I won't have time to do anything with it until Saturday (or maybe Friday night). Not sure what type of reset I'm going to do on the system once I install the pedal. Anyone know if I have to do something special after installing it? I don't want to take it back to the dealer if I don't have to. I have a code reader so no issue with retrieving/clearing the current codes. No special mods on the PCM (No predator tunes, etc.).

Think I can just plug this bad boy in and expect it to work?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Haven't had time to pull apart the lower dash and install the pedal yet. (Been buried) I did have something odd occur last night that should mean something but I'm not sure what yet. I had tried the accelerator pedal recalibrate thing a couple of weeks ago but found out yesterday I had been doing it wrong. I used the correct method I found posted and it actually seemed to have an effect. The car started up and ran great so I took it out for a spin. Got about a mile or so and it started freaking out again (ETC, ESP/BAS lights on, high, rough idle). I pulled over, shut it off, and then did the recalibrate thing again. It started it fine and I drove it a little further. (About 3 or 4 miles.) It messed up one more time before I got home so I recalibrated it again. At that point, I'm thinking...I'm onto something. I had to go somewhere a bit later so I decided to take the 300 since I now no how to quickly reset it if it freaks on my again. I drove all the way to a town about 16 miles away and back again with no issues. I stopped at a gas station to tank up and, when I restarted, it went haywire again. I turned it off and could not get the recalibrate thing to work again. I am pretty much convinced it is not the computer now. If it was it wouldn't have accepted the reset and worked for that long.... right?

I HAVE to make some time tonight to get the pedal switched out. If it's not that, I think I'm gonna be checking wires I guess. (Not looking forward to that.)

If any of this clicks in anyone's head and seems to mean something, please chime in.

Open to any and all suggestions at this point. I will follow up as soon as I get the pedal changed with those results.
 

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Here's one suggestion. I'd check all your main electrical connections and grounds. Make sure the harness is securely plugged into the PCM. It sounds like you might have a bad main electrical ground or some other short in the electrical system. Don't forget to check the positive and negative cables on the battery.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Well... got the pedal changed out last night. Wasn't sure if I needed to but went ahead and pulled fuse 11 and 14, waited a few minutes and put them back in. Turned the key to ON, waited for all lights to go out and then did the pedal recalibrate (Slowly down, slowly up, wait around 10 secs, turn off, then start car.). I had to do it two or three times before it straightened out and ran right. I took it out and drove it around for 15 minutes or so. I drove it pretty hard too. Fast starts, braked fairly hard a couple of times, some sharp turns, etc. It never messed up. Drove it home and parked it in the garage thinking I could take it to work the next day. Started it this morning and it ran fine for a few minutes. I got a couple of blocks down the road and it went haywire again. I pulled over and tried to reset it with the pedal recalibrate trick and no luck. One thing I noticed last night is that when I couldn't get it to straighten out, I just let it run until it reached full operating temp. I then shut it off, did the recal on the pedal and it started up fine.

Current codes on car: 2101, 2118, 2110.



I don't know why temperature would have anything to do with it but I thought I would mention that because that last couple of times I have got it to run right it has only been after it reached normal operating temp.

I looked briefly at the wires in the trunk as someone in another thread mentioned a pinched or loose wire there had been his problem. (At least according to the dealer) I didn't see anything that looked suspect but then I didn't pull off the protective sheath around the main cluster of wires. There is also a cluster of wires connected to a ground right above the battery so I will need to look at that closer. (tried wiggling the wires and they seemed pretty solid.) I have had the battery out since this all started (had Autozone do a load test on it) and I believe the cables are ok but I will check them again.

If I had the spare cash, I would just go ahead and spend the bucks on the PCM so I could at least rule it out. Too much to come up with right now though. ($400 to $500)

I was so pissed this morning when I had to limp home in my car. I'm pretty sure I used every swear word I know this morning. This is really starting to wear on me. :thk:
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Also meant to add... Thanks for the tips! I REALLY appreciate it!

I'm a big believer in hitting the forums. The people here are often better informed about what do to than the mechs at the dealer are.
In another life, I worked on cars pretty regularly (small shop) but this car has really got me stumped.
 

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P2101 = Throttle Actuator "A" Control Motor Circuit Range/Performance

P2118 = Throttle Actuator Control Motor Current Range/Performance

P2110 = Throttle Actuator Control System - Forced Limited RPM
 

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i had the same problem..., it was my map sensor..., i dont know why but it was..!!! happened twice.., just a thought get that sensor checked out 40$ fix...
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Checked all connections to the PCM and TCM. (Physically removed each connector and plugged back in). Checked all the grounds I could find (three of them). Actually removed the grounds, cleaned the post and connectors and reconnected. Generally inspected wires again looking for anything that looked out of the ordinary.

I mentioned this before but I let the car run until it was completely warmed up and then shut it off. I turned the key to ON and waited for all lights to do their thing and then started it and it ran ok. I can tell when it's going to start without messing up because the ETC light will go out before I start the car. When I see the light go out, I proceed to start and the car seems to run fine. If the red ETC light is flashing when I turn the key to on, I know it will mess up when I start it. I had it running ok last night when I put it back in the garage so I decided to take it to work on Monday. (Today)

Today was odd as I made it all the way to work (60 miles) without any issue but then the ETC light came on and rough idle again as I turned into the parking lot. (Going to be a long ride home.)

I can't find anything loose. It also seems odd that getting the car completely warmed up seems to allow it to reset and run right, even if only temporarily.

Any ideas on what else to check? Do I just need to scrape together the cost of a new PCM?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
i had the same problem..., it was my map sensor..., i dont know why but it was..!!! happened twice.., just a thought get that sensor checked out 40$ fix...
I replaced the MAP sensor a few weeks ago when this started. Did you have any issues with the replacement part they sold you. (Did you install it?) The one they sold me was actually slightly larger than the original and took some work to get it clicked in.

Did you have the same codes I have right now? (2101, 2118, 2110)

A MAP sensor is cheap and I'm fine with buying another one if there is even a remote chance that will solve this. Maybe they sold me the wrong one or the one I got was defective.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I noticed something last night. When I had the car running in the garage (After dark) with the lights on, I saw the dash lights and headlights flicker when I stepped on the gas a bit and held it there. (Around 1500 to 2000) This could be due to a loose/shorted wire or it could be an alternator issue. Would any type of irregular current coming from the alternator cause the PCM to freak out and throw the car in to "Limp mode"? The car has quite a few miles (150k) so maybe the alternator is dying on me. I saw some posts where the dealer checked the battery and said it needed to be replaced but nothing on the alternator. Based on what I thought I knew about cars, the car utilizes the battery to start but, after starting, the cars electrical system runs off of the alternator.

I don't have an easy way to test the alternator and, from what I have heard, it is a pain to get out of this car. I think Autozone still checks them but I don't know if they can check it while it's still in the car. I have meters but I don't think I can get anything connected where the alternator is. When this all started, it was very gradual. It went from happening once every couple of weeks to 4+ times a month to almost every time I start it now.

I have read several posts connected with buggy wiring issues with this car. With all the electrical problems I have read about, you would think Chrysler would have had a recall or TSB on it.
 

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I just had the same problem was my egr tube seal! Recently did my own tune up and did'nt noticed but ripped it. found the same problem as you car after building it up was worried about what i did wrong. proceeded to trace my steps and disassemble the intake plenum stumbling across the broken in two egr tube seal. Located it at the dealer and that was the solution. So if you've recently removed the plenum good chance thats the problem. Good luck buddy luckily i had an easy time figuring it out hope this helps.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Problem appears to be solved!

I didn't want to be one of those people that figures out what the problem was and doesn't come back and post so.....

Between my last post and now, I had done some other testing based on some info I found posted about PCM's in general. I noticed that tapping or pressing on the back of the PCM and then starting the car allowed it to run right, even if only momentarily.

When I had it in the shop, they had removed the connectors from the PCM to do some tests. When they were done and plugged them back in, the car had run right for a day or so before messing up again. They "told" me they had cleaned the connectors so I never looked at them or did anything with them.

Last night, I had decided I was ordering a remanufactured PCM so I said, what the heck, I'm opening mine up to take a look. I disconnected the battery, removed the PCM, and opened it up. There really isn't much you can do because there is a gelatinous substance (sort of a dielectric compound) filling the inside of the PCM. The compound is relatively clear so I spent a little time looking through it to see if anything obvious stood out on the board. Nothing did.
I put the cover back on the PCM and cranked it down tightly to ensure a good seal against the compound inside and around the lip of the cover. I used some CRC dry solvent spray to spray out the contacts on the PCM sockets and the connector pins on the plugs. Plugged the connectors back in, remounted the PCM in the car, and reconnected the battery. I got in and turned the key to on (not starting it yet) and waited to see if the ETC light stayed on this time. (Always had before, then rough idling) The light went out and the car started fine. I took it out for a long spin and ran it pretty hard... no issues. Drove it all the way to work today (60 miles) with no problems. I believe the problem is solved but I'll be keeping an eye out for anything odd. To minimize vibration, I added some black rubberized pipe insulation behind the PCM because it does move a bit when the car is in motion. The rubberized insulation provides a great vibration damper. You may laugh at this next thing but I am also going to use a very large wire tie (zip ties) to run around the PCM and across the backs of each connector. Although they all appear to be snapped in fairly tight and locked, there is a little play in each of them. Having the wire tie behind each one will ensure there is no "wiggle room" which can also cause issues with the pins over time.

Sorry for the book but I wanted to be sure to follow up with what appears to have been the problem and what was done that appears to have solved it.

Moral to this story.. ALWAYS check ALL your connectors before assuming other parts are bad and replacing them. Not doing that cost me a few hundred dollars and I know better. (Worked on cars for years)

Back in my 300c and lovin it! :smileup:

Now on to other things like replacing the stabilizer link bushings.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Thanks Maddog

MADDOG -
I wanted to say thanks for your suggestion as, ultimately, I believe the issue was with the PCM plugs (or residue on them). Taking them off and cleaning them with Dry solvent seems to have resolved the issue. I doubt opening the PCM and resealing it did much as I didn't alter anything inside. I have driven it a few more times today and it is running like a champ now.

My suggestion to everyone would be to check you PCM plugs (all three) and use some dry solvent spray on them to remove any possible residue that might have crept in. I was noticing little flakey issues long before the car wigged out on me. Things like the dash lights flickering just a bit (Headlights too sometimes). Since I cleaned the connectors and PCM sockets, along with the car running great, all the other odd activity is gone too. I would also recommend using a small section of rubberized pipe insulation to put behind/around the PCM to eliminate any odd vibrations. I am also going to use a large zip tie to run around the PCM and over the three plugs. That should eliminate any possible movement, even if only minor, that can, over time, effect the metal connection points.
 

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Happy to read you found the connection problem!!!

Sometimes the simplest things can be the culprit. And it's always good to double check, even if someone else tells you they did this or they did that.

Nice to see you are running OK!
 
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